Jon Hawk on Personal Injury, Jury Trials & Client Advocacy | The AICA Podcast Ep 7

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Welcome back to the AICA podcast. I’m Jade, and today we’re joined by attorney Jon Hawk, founder of Hawk Injury Law in Macon, Georgia. Jon graduated from the University of Georgia School of Law, and he started his career working for insurance companies before shifting to plaintiff personal injury work. That experience gave him a front-row seat to how insurers actually handle claims, insight he’s carried with him ever since.

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Jon is also a graduate of the Trial Lawyers College in Wyoming, where he trained alongside some of the country’s top trial lawyers. With nearly 3 decades of experience, Jon’s built a team-based approach that even includes a nurse paralegal on staff to bring medical expertise directly into case prep. Outside of law, Jon and his wife are involved with the first Presbyterian Church of Macon.

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Welcome, Jon. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. It’s our pleasure. So give me a little bit of background. You started your career working for insurance companies before moving to personal injury law. What was that experience like, and how does it shape the way you approach cases now? Well, you know, thanks for asking that. That is the start of kind of the way that, you know, I was trained to practice and to try cases, although that changed a lot later on. But it was, it was good to be able to go try probably 20 jury trials in the first 4 years, all small cases.

[01:19-01:37]

Um, you know, I, I regret that public defenders and, and lawyers that start that way try many more cases in the first few years. But getting your feet wet immediately, you know, and trying cases and, and that’s, I enjoy that part of the, of the practice.

[01:37-02:04]

It was meaningful. And also, I do think it never hurts to reverse roles, and something we did learn in the Trial Lawyers College, in fact, reverse roles with the other side so that you can kind of get more of an idea of about maybe where and how they’re, where they’re coming from and how they’re thinking. And, you know, I think we all heard this, when you’re about to speak or give a presentation, you wanna really think about who your, who your audience is.

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And I think that early experience has helped me, and I would encourage other lawyers, young lawyers or law students that might be listening to, to consider that as a way of, of starting their career. What was the catalyst from that experience that really made you f-feel like, “You know what? I’ve gotten this experience. Let me try and go out on my own and do some plaintiff’s work”? I really enjoyed working with people or have enjoyed that over my career.

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Um, that’s made all the difference to me, and I think that while there are people that you work with as a defense lawyer, you don’t get to really get to know them and their story like you do if you represent people who’ve been injured directly. When you represent someone that’s been injured, learning that person’s story, literally they become somebody that is like a friend to you, you know? And as a defense lawyer, you only saw the person you were defending for a little while, and the insurance company would pay the judgment or settlement.

[03:04-03:29]

But for folks that are injured, working with them, there’s a lot at stake, and I just felt like I was doing some good. I feel like it was a calling for me to, to work on that side. There’s not a day that I come in hardly that I don’t enjoy my work. That’s awesome. Um, I am a personal injury paralegal by trade, so I’ve done been at boutique firms, large firms, and I definitely understand that zealous advocacy.

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But thinking of the dynamic of your team, having a nurse paralegal on staff is not something that you really see at boutique firms. How does that change your approach to when you look at cases and evaluate them? Well, it has a great impact. You know, we don’t do very much med mal. We don’t hardly any med mal, medical malpractice. But, uh, with automobile and trucking collision cases, which is what we handle for the most part, knowing at the beginning that when the case comes in, that the medicals are gonna be organized, there’s going to be a, a, a chronology that’s, you know, in part done now these days by AI, but really with a human element, I think that’s very important.

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And one of the things I like best about having a nurse here is, number one, is my wife is the nurse. She works with us- Oh, okay. ……… Full-time. And then, uh, number 2, uh, the other thing is, is she drafts what we call a problem memo, ’cause every case has got a problem. And so I’d like to know early on, we order the records early in every case, at least the beginning records, ’cause we wanna know what’s going on with this case.

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You know, is there something we need to know about early on? we wait until they finish treating, they may never finish treating. A lot of our clients don’t, unfortunately. But if we, if they did and we waited until then, we wouldn’t have information that I think is very important. It could be information that would help them with a decision, uh, on their treatment.

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I’ve been– I’ve had 2 back surgeries in my career. Yeah. So I feel like I come at it with a pretty good perspective about, I never say I know what someone’s gone through or how they feel exactly, but I do get some idea of what it’s like to have, have a feeling about, you know, wow, this is overwhelming that I’ve been hurt and that, you know, I’ve got this injury.

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In large part, just to answer that, your question more directly, I guess, is that it gets cases off to a great start, you know, with the medical, and it also, I think, gives clients a level of confidence that, you know, we care enough that we employ a full-time nurse that, uh, is gonna be guiding and helping them along the way. We don’t give m-medical advice by any means.

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That’s between the patient and the doctor, but we wanna make sure the client gets the best care possible. We wanna make sure that the doctor’s a, a good advocate for the patient, for the client. And 2 of our paralegals, including our nurse paralegal, are either currently an exercise instructor or formerly an exercise instructor, certified And so we really wanna take a, a perspective before we ever meet a client in some of our marketing, “Hey, wellness is important.” I mean, they’ve even got me working out.

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I worked out this morning at 5:00 AM, which is crazy for me. Yes. You know, and, uh, but we wanna promote wellness, and we want people to, on- after they’ve been hurt, to get back into life, y- normal activities if they can, by having that healthy mindset.

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So the combination of those things really is kind of like a mission. It’s part of our core values that we, that we’ve actually put in writing about our firm, is to help people in a b- in a bigger way, hopefully, than, than just, you know, the things that we have a professional obligation to do. Mm-hmm. We wanna do more.

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That’s beautiful ’cause, of course, as we both know from being in the industry, a lot of times when y- patients or clients are coming to us, um, looking at the demographic of the injured patients, it’s a really hard time in their life, you know? Their vehicle helps them make their livelihood, so having that affected as well as being in pain, being that warm, comforting family, feeling firm with good core values, I can imagine the benefit that adds to your clients. Um- Thank you. Absolutely.

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I also am a 5:00 AM gym girl, and listen, being in the wellness space has definitely motivated me to be more intentional about prioritizing my mental health and my body. So I will say, being on law firm side, although I loved it, it just is a different focus, but still a similar level of advocacy. Yeah. Well put. So we know Georgia’s gone through some significant tort reform recently.

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Has that changed the way you approach c- cases at all? You know, a little bit. Uh, actually, I was thinking about this the other day. I was talking, a lot of our cases come from other lawyers, and one of the lawyers we were talking to just doesn’t wanna try cases. He wants, when he has a case that he can’t settle, he likes to get someone he knows that, you know, will work with him, and we have a great working relationship. And I, I really thought in the last 6 to 7 cases that I’ve tried, probably wouldn’t have, the results wouldn’t have been any different, for better or for worse.

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There are some more strategic decisions that need to be made, like there’s some interesting things going on with bifurcation of the trial- Mm-hmm where you, you know, you have half of it about liability and half damages and how that actually helps a plaintiff recently in a case. You know, I think that, to be honest, um, you know, some of the, like, the, the bad faith laws where, you know, if somebody had a comma in the wrong place, I mean, I’m exaggerating a little bit, then the insurance company was set up in bad faith.

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I, I thought that was a little too much, and I think it needed to be drawn back in a little bit. Now, I don’t agree with, uh, obviously, I’m a big advocate of the 7th Amendment right to a jury trial, and I think that’s so important. People should have a voice and an advocate that can, you know, and especially in situations where not only their freedom is at stake in the criminal law context, which I don’t handle cases that w- but that’s where think, people think of jury and the right to 7th Amendment trial. But also in civil cases, when your livelihood is at stake, your identity is at stake from being taken.

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And so, like, caps on damages, that’s, that’s wrong. Taking the power, in, in general, when the politicians try to take the power out of the hands of jurors, then, you know, they’re really, I believe, are infringing on our rights. Numerous studies, including going back to the 1970s, the seminal case out of University of Chicago, where they said judges agreed with jurors in, in some really high percentage, maybe even sev- 80% of the time, they agreed with the result of the jury.

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Um, and I think, uh, Professor Eaton, University of Georgia Law School, I think also similar studies, you know, about, you know, juries really aren’t runaway juries like you hear the media talk about. Um, juries typically get it right, uh, you know, I think, and I respect the jury trial.

[10:13-10:41]

And where else in our society is democracy more pure than when you have 12 citizens, not an elected person? But this is direct democracy, 12 citizens saying, “This is what should happen in this case.” I mean, it’s, it really is a, a hope, a hope not going to be under attack like we expect it will be, but it’s something that we all have to band together and protect. Absolutely.

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It’s refreshing hearing you talk. You know, you can hear your passion and obviously your expertise as you answer these questions. So it’s, it’s, it’s definitely refreshing ’cause, like you touched on a little bit, the personal injury landscape in Georgia almost was, for lack of better words, a free-for-all for so long, right? You know, so many attorneys loved coming into Georgia.

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It was a easy one and done for them, and tort reform has added some almost guardrails. And so for those attorneys that aren’t well-versed in being in a courtroom, being in front of a judge, filing those complaints, it’s, it’s really starting to show right now. You know, I was listening to one of your previous guests in a podcast not too long ago talk about how, like, the lawyers you’re, maybe you’re speaking of, you know, really quick settlements can arise in some of those scenarios.

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And I thought he, I can’t remember the name of your guest, but it was a very good point he made, that some cases don’t need to settle right away. You know, people need that, you know, extra time, you know, to, for the lawyer to work to get the best possible settlement for that client, and sometimes that’s not fast.

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You know, we want it to be as quickly as possible. But, um, I think that, you know, when you talk of tort reform, you know, those are the types of things that I worry about, is that our whole system’s gonna turn into a system where there’s a mathematical formula that’s telling you what your case is worth, not what you genuinely lost, you know, from, from the fact that you’re injured. You know, they’re gonna treat people like robots, which is wrong.

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You know? It’s, every case is different, and every case deserves professional evaluation by lawyers who are experienced and who mean well. I was g- definitely gonna ask what’s something misunderstood, and you kind of just touched on that for me. So now I’m gonna transition a little bit. What does John Hawke do to unwind?

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Outside of the courtroom, outside of practice, what’s a perfect day for you? Well, I am trying to work less, but I will tell you what. 3, I’m 59, I’ll be 59 in a month, and, um, 29th year of law practice. And 3 years ago I started playing piano.

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Wow. Yeah. So I bought one. Like, I did the 18 months no interest and got the, the small grand piano, and I, I like anything from country music to classical music to pop, Billy Joel or, or whatever. And so I’m really wanting to spend more time doing that. And, um, my children are grown. I’ve got one in law school, one in seminary, you know- Wow and a graduate, both in graduate school, and I think that, you know, now that they’re gone, maybe I have a little more time to work on things like that.

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And then hopefully I will continue on my present course of working out and trying to, to not age too much too soon, so. If you weren’t practicing law, what do you think you’d be doing instead? Well, I probably would, would be working for Lowe’s Home Center. Because before I went to law school, I had a job in Charlotte, North Carolina.

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I was getting ready to leave. I had an apartment picked out. And then I just, all of a sudden, my parents were talking about, you know, back in This is early, early ’90s, uh, talking about, um, you know, a lawyer they knew, who they respected, who did a lot of good in the community, and I thought to myself, “Maybe I should do that. Maybe I should go to law school.” And then next thing I know, I was up taking the LSAT and applying and gave up the job and, but I really loved working there at Lowe’s and, you know, it was gonna be a, a fun position, you know, to travel a little bit with them and But, uh, so and I enjoy, you know, things that they sell, you know- Mm-hmm hardware, I guess.

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But, uh, but I think, um, you know, I would like to be helping people though. I mean, it’s just, it really, I was thinking about this question in context of another, you know, thing we were doing, and I thought to myself, “What greater professional feeling can a person have than when you’ve helped someone at a really important time in their life, and then they’ve shown you gratitude for it?” And you think to yourself, “This is just what I’m s- this is my obligation.

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This is what I’m, you’re supposed to receive this type of attention.” And sometimes it means working, often it means working Saturdays and late nights and, but it’s something we’ve signed on to do, and if you’re gonna do it, you better You know, I think what Martin Luther King Jr. said, you know, “If you’re gonna be a street sweeper, be the best s- street sweeper you could possibly be.” You know, so whatever it is your profession is, you know, you should really try at your utmost.

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And I, and that is a challenge in every profession, I’m s- I’m sure, not just ours, to do the very best you can and have that attitude and- Mm-hmm and, and to, to make lives, you help people, I hear it in your answers in, like, every question you’ve answered, like how your faith shows up in the way you practice law, and again, it’s really refreshing to interact with people that truly just love the work that they do and really want to impact and influence the lives of those that they interact and especially represent, so thank you for that.

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Looking back at nearly 30 years in this field, is there one case that stuck with you the most? Not necessarily the biggest win, but the one that meant the most. There was one case that I was asked to try, help try about literally less than a, about a week before the jury trial, and it’s- I won’t go into why, but the lady had had a very, very difficult life, and another lawyer had prepared the case, so I was going to try the case. And, um, we found out on the witness stand that essentially the defense had, literally during the trial, that the defense had records from other doctors that we didn’t know about, even doctors after the last doctor we knew about.

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And it was brutal cross-examination. And we were in North Georgia, and I thought, “How are we gonna ever win this case?” That night, I went back to the hotel, and I will thank the Trial Lawyers College and those instructors, some of the best trial lawyers in the country, ’cause it gets your mindset thinking this way. And I said, “What is the most honest thing that I could possibly talk to this jury about tomorrow during the closing argument?” They’ve impeached my client and made it look very much like she was seeking drugs, you know, during her medical treatment.

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But I had remembered that she told me that, you know, that she had a drinking problem, so I asked a little bit about that the night before closing. And she said, “Yeah. Um, when my son passed away in a car accident, I started drinking, and for a while I drank way too much, and then I got sober for a little bit.

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And then I was in a work-related injury, and the doctor gave me Lortab, and that was all it took, and I was hooked.” And then she said, “I was able to stop that for a little while. And then when this co-collision happened, the doctor, he ga- offered me OxyContin.” So she took OxyContin, 8 visits, and, um, never got injections from that doctor and saw other doctors and, and got more drugs. So we made a decision.

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You know, she started drinking after her son passed away, and I said, “If we put you on the stand tomorrow, would you be willing to say in front of everyone that you’re an addict?” And she said, “Yes.” I said, “But you’re a recovering addict, right?” “Yep.” I said, “How can we prove that?” And she picked– she showed me a from AA. And I said, “Can you bring that to court tomorrow?” She said, “Yes.” So we put her back on the witness stand.

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first question out of the gate: “Are you an addict?” “I’m a recovering addict,” she said. “And how long have you been sober?” “Four years.” “And 4 years ago is the last time you went to a doctor related to this case, correct?” “Yes.” “And that’s the doctor we learned about yesterday, right? Y- we didn’t know about that doctor, correct?” She goes, “That’s right.” I said, “Were you drug-seeking when you were treating for this collision?” She said, “Yes.” “Were you in pain?” “I was in terrible pain.” “Are you in pain now?” “I’ve been in terrible pain the whole week.” I said, “So let me get this straight.

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You haven’t gone back to the doctor in 4 years. Why?” “Because I know that if I do, there’s a chance I could take drugs again, pain relievers, and I wouldn’t get the next chip.” And I just sat there for a second and looked at the jury, and the jury just were– they were glued, you know, to her.

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And, you know, in closing, the argument was the gap in treatment’s now explained. And what are we gonna do i-in, in this county when a witness says when, when they have a, a problem of a, of addiction? Are we gonna say, “You’re out of luck. You don’t get to, to recover. You don’t get justice”?

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Not even our worst criminals in society do we inflict pain on them, you know. Uh, instead, the jury did, uh, a, a great job for her, and they awarded her a very nice It wasn’t, like you say, the biggest verdict ever, but it was ten times the medical bills, you know. And we were able to get an attorney fee award on top of that, so it was– It changed her life for the better, and it allowed her to get additional treatment that she would not have been able to get anymore because she didn’t have insurance, and she was able to get physical therapy after that, which really helped her physical condition.

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And been a while since I’ve talked to her, but I hope she’s doing really well now, and I, it really felt very rewarding to, to see those 12 jurors really look beyond what was obviously a very bad problem for her, but it didn’t get in their way of doing the right thing from a, from the perspective of justice.

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What a creative solution to try and win. And, you know, I love that perspective that you brought ’cause that really humanizes the plaintiff, right? I think sometimes people try to villainize them. Her being willing to speak that about her past and be vulnerable like that in front of people really is important. I’m sure somebody else Who knows who life she could have affected just by being transparent.

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And, you know, I tell you, you know, it’s just, it made me proud of the jury, you know. And, and, but remember I started that by saying, “What is the most” This is the Trial Lawyer College training, some of the lawyers that go there, not just Trial Lawyers College, other lawyers do it, but what is the most honest thing that we can tell this jury?

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She was seeking drugs at that time, um, but there was a big reason, big explanation for it, and it was a battle for her. She was the last person that needed to get hit by someone that was being careless, and by an insurance company that offered $30,000 to settle the case, despite having over 7 figures in coverage.

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great job. And again, thank you so much for your time today. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and if anyone is looking for a personal injury attorney, feel free to look at, for Mr. Jon Hawk out of Macon, Georgia. Is there anywhere else they can find you? They, they’re welcome to call, or, or my email address is great, uh, J-O-N at, Jon, jon@hawkinjurylaw.com.

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And even if it’s not a case, they just wanna talk about trial work or representing clients and the, the great job you guys do, um, you know, I’d love to talk to other folks about, you know, anything related to our profession is always a joy. Well, thank you again for your time. Thank you everybody for listening today, uh, to the AICA podcast, and as always, we got your back.

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That’s it for today’s episode of the AICA podcast. We’ll be back soon with more insights. Until then, we got your back.